Sully - a lazybones?

[Dr. Slicker]

Sometimes I´m with Preston and wonder about Sully´s profession(s). I mean, he is a mountain-man with an obviously superb graduation on the Mountain-Man-Academy, so an excellent trapper, tramper and hunter. Not to speak about his former jobs as a miner, carpenter and political observer.

But why the heck does he earn this little money? He can produce awesome artifical carvings, he is a brilliant axe-thrower and everything else. But I can´t suppress my feeling, that Michaela is the money-maker in the family. Who paid the material for the new homestead?

Maybe this is (un)wishful thinking, but in my watching experience Sully is more roaming around than being with the family at the homestead or working nearby.

So what do you think? Is Sully a lazybones or not?

[Sophy]

I would say he is, most of the time. In the modern world he would be seen as a person who's running from work. He is kind of a comfortable person. He does what he pleases when he wishes and he could spend days just doing not much at all but just roam, think and be. How else could he have all this time to show up whenever Michaela needs him? Even Brian works harder than Sully I think.

Of course there are times when Sully works HARD. Let's see... building the homestead! And whenever he's working he looks like it's HARD work, as if no one on earh is working as hard as him, and that's why he feels even more lazy to me. He works like he just wants to sit down and take a break or lie down, breathing looking at the sky, even if it's being and Indian Agent. I don't know how to explain it. Most of the jobs he had he seems to just rather want to quit and he's secretly searching for a way out, something to blame.

I think the writers sometimes were aware of that there needed to be something said about Sully's lack of working. Somehow it made it more acceptable whenever they did, they beat the viewer to it.

[cooperkids]

Some men are called to work hard and make money and others are called to roam the wilderness and protect the wildlife. Sully is the latter. He focuses himself on something that he cares about and performs some odd jobs when he's feeling less than adequate. Take me for instance, I have many skills that could use to make more money than I do with my writing, but I don't want to. If I have to go back to work I will, but for now I'll write a bit here and there and see what happens. And like Sully, if I can squeak by an existance doing something I love, then that's what I prefer.

[Dr. Slicker]

I´m with your thoughts, Cheryl, but I´m not sure, if Sully is just that kind of person you are describing. At least I´d like to see him a tad more faithful to the naked material needs and so doing something consequently and frequently, regardless of earning more or less money or no money. Just an uncompromising and repeated devotedness to a meaningful every-day-activity.

[Kruemi]

I voted for

Yep - Colleen cooks for him, Mrs. X washes for him and CD goes walkie with him.

because I love this line, especially the last point .

I know what you all mean and I agree with all of you. I think if Sully would live today, he would be an artist where he can decide himself when to work and when not. When he works, he is focused but when he doesn't, he just enjoys doing not much.
However, as a husband and father, he could have done a tad more. I agree: the kids worked harder than him, with all their daily chores (not to forget Michaela).

[lrsmith11]

What an interesting discussion guys, and i enjoy seeing everyone's point. I've often wondered what it was that Sully actually did, how did he get by without having a steady job? I think in the beginning of the series he shared the communal lifestyle of the Cheyenne. He would have hunted and had his traps and then traded for the goods he couldn't produce on his own. That's all he needed, he didn't have anyone to support but himself.

After they get married, Sully I believe has trouble adjusting to having to provide more than what he's used to. I think he even makes a comment about it in Having it All. I have to agree more along with what Cheryl was saying. Sully is quite the passionate person, I believe. He has his few things that he believes in and will fight for (let's not discuss how he chooses to go about fighting for them! but for him (in my eyes at least) he always ends up fighting against corruption. There seems to be stunting his growth. How disappointing was he at the end of Indian Agent when he realized that he had been duped? That no matter how hard he fought, he couldn't do it alone? I belive the same goes for his other love, the west and the land that surround him. No body seems to care as much as he does and lets face it, he never had friends in high enough places. I think perhaps the reason he didn't do as much as he did was because 1. I think he was still trying to adjust to family life by the time the series ended, yes it had been 3 years, but he was going to have to figure something out eventually or drift further away into depression at the unability to be what he wanted and 2. I don't think there were the vessels that were available to him there at his time. I can name endless things he would be good at in todays society but hardly one that I can see him doing in the 1800s...

[Lynn]

When he built the homestead he was definitly working hard! When he was trying to pay off the loan he was working hard. But normally once he was fired from the reservation he didn't work hard. He would help others like when he took food to Criple Creek or helped repair a widow's fence, but he didn't have regular work. With his building skill he could have run a building business including furnature. He could have hired out as handy man. He could have become a partner with Robert E doing wood work while he did medale

[lrsmith11]

Good point, Lynn. I think perhaps he lost alot of heart after he was fired from the agent position and he was at a loss on how to gain that back.

I think this is one of the (few) things that I enjoyed about the movies- Revelations. The beginning when it was talking about him being the commissioner and what he was dealing with with the electricity... it was just so Sully but CS had nothing like up until then. I think it was a good solution to the problem at hand.

[Gemma]

As you might have guessed I am the one who voted
Nope - he works like crazy minus sleeping-time. Charles Ingalls is nothing compared to Sully.

Nobody can deny he worked hard after he got the job of Indian Agent. He was all the time working as a peacemaker in the reservation and trying to defend the Indian rights. And if I am not mistaken this happens right before finishing the homestead, so he got 2 jobs at the same time.
We know he was a miner, a carpenter, a hunter, a soldier, he built a small homestead and then an elegant big one, then he got the Indian Agent job, maybe the second half of season 6 is when he is idler but he said he would be finishing Preston's homestead, I don't know if he did though. I haven't seen it, so I can't tell. But in The Heart Within Michaela complains it is difficult to get him away from the "bulk bureau business" (not sure of the spelling) and the truth is that Sully seems to be more posh and finally settled down.

Sully was an artist, the "wilderness Renaissance man", but at the same time an activist and he also was at hand when needed, and Michaela needed the whole family in some of her operations. He was fighting against the injustice as Zorro did but without the mask. How could he get a steady job then? Being an activist fighting for human rights in the XIXth century had to be hard work. That's the reason why I think he worked harder than Mr. Ingalls and minus sleeping time, and sometimes not even being able to come back home at night like in third and fourth season finale working on the behalf of Native Americans. Sully nowadays would be a social worker and that is an exhausting and difficult job if you take it so seriously as he did.

[Amber]

Originally Posted by Gemma

As you might have guessed I am the one who voted
Nope - he works like crazy minus sleeping-time. Charles Ingalls is nothing compared to Sully.

Nobody can't deny he worked hard after he got the job of Indian Agent. He was all the time working as a peacemaker in the reservation and trying to defend the Indian rights. And if I am not mistaken this happens right before finishing the homestead, so he got 2 jobs at the same time.
We know he was a miner, a carpenter, a hunter, a soldier, he built a small homestead and then an elegant big one, then he got the Indian Agent job, maybe the second half of season 6 is when he is idler but he said he would be finishing Preston's homestead, I don't know if he did though. I haven't seen it, so I can't tell. But in The Heart Within Michaela complains it is difficult to get him away from the "bulk bureau business" (not sure of the spelling) and the truth is that Sully seems to be more posh and finally settled down.

Sully was an artist, the "wilderness Renaissance man" but at the same time an activist and he also was at hand when needed, and Michaela needed the whole family in some of her operations. He was fighting against the injustice as Zorro did but without the mask. How could he get a steady job then? Being an activist fighting for human rights in the XIXth had to be hard work. That's the reason why I think he worked harder than Mr. Ingalls and minus sleeping time, and sometimes not even being able to come back home at night like in third and fourth season finale working on the behalf of Native Americans. Sully nowadays would be a social worker and that is an exhausting and difficult job if you take it so seriously as he did.

I agree. I think Sully was a hard-working person (I think Charles Ingalls was too...just in different ways)...he had a high vision, that of trying to save the land, and its original settlers (the Indians), and he would have had little time for those pursuits had he been off working at some job. I think he did his level best to try to "walk his talk" by being an Indian agent ( although that didn't go as well as he hoped, but what went well for the Indians back in those days? Not much.) and earn some money in the process. And, he did his best to fight the overwhelming changes that were upon him and the rest of the world...the changes the rampant civilization were bringing to the land, people and environment, changes that we are still dealing with today...

I have always wondered though how they managed to have enough money to send Colleen to college, etc...Sully's income (when he had one), I guess, and Michaela's fees as a doctor, when she stopped allowing herself to be paid in pies and chickens...

[lrsmith11]

Gemma and Amnber, both of you have said such wonderful things and I have to say I agree whole heartedly. I especially love the line about the "wilderness Renaissance man." In some way I believe that Sully- for the length of the series- is a tragic hero the last few season. He fought so hard and nothing seemed to go his way, and yet he seemed to fight harder and I believe( if we can believe the movies) that he found his middle ground. He found that balanced.

[Gemma]

Oh, yes I agree completely with you two too. And In The Heart Within he is wearing the uncovering mask / buckskins and carrying the tomahawk when he has to act in a rebellious way. Just to let us know he still has his essence when needed. I suppose Michaela's influence finally bore fruits.

Sometimes I see Sully pictured as a historical conscience, we can see it when interacting with the Reverend in the reservation or when reminding the townsfolk how Indians are illtreated even talking in front of the church to get the people's empathy. As you said Lindsay, he is a tragic hero, because we know he won't stop the suffering but his real goal isn't this, his goal is just retelling the story from another eyes, and what eyes!

[lrsmith11]

Right you are about him the the historical mind. In one discussion on about The Train we discussed who Michaela and Sully, of course, have different sides. However often times they have these different sides, I believe in order for the writers to prove a point. Sully most always proposed the view of how things eneviatbly turn out, a little pessimistic? Most of the time he broad sides us with his idea and it coincides with what we historically know what happened. Michaela on the other hand if often times a beautiful foil to him because she is so optimistic(again not sure if that's the right word). She provides effectively how great progress and these new ideas could have been. She is the period character while Sully provides us with a view from our generation.

[Kahle]

Originally Posted by Kruemi

I voted for

because I love this line, especially the last point .

Yep, my reason is as simple as Kruemi's

[Dr. Slicker]

Gemma, your very interesting and empathizing viewpoints about Sully have won the nomination-contest justified IMO!

So it´s kinda hard to stick to my opinion. In regard of my recent time-lack I will try to explain my viewpoints soon. :harlequin: